If you're a HOKKIEN Take Note !!
You'll be Surprised. You have heard it. You, your parents, or grandparents may still be speaking this ancient, archaic language!
Yes, it's HOKKIEN (Fujian/Minnan Hua 福建话/闽南话)
Hokkien is:
1. The surviving language of the Tang Dynasty (唐朝, 618 - 907 A.D.), China 's Golden Age of Culture.
Note: The Hokkien we hear today may have "evolved" from its original form 2,000 years ago, but it still retains the main elements of the Tang Dynasty Language.
2. Hokkiens are the surviving descendants of the Tang Dynasty -- When the Tang Dynasty collapsed, the people of the Tang Dynasty fled South and sought refuge in the Hokkien ( Fujian 福建省) province. Hence, Hokkien called themselves Tng-lang (唐人（比喻为唐朝子孙） Tang Ren or People of the Tang Dynasty) instead of Hua Lang (华人 Hua Ren).
3. Hokkien has 8 tones instead of Mandarin's 4. Linguists claim that ancient languages tend to have more complex tones.
4. Hokkien retains the ancient Chinese pronunciation of "K-sounding" endings (for instance, 学生 Hak Seng (student), 大学 Tua Ok (university), 读册 Thak Chek (read a book/study) -- the "k" sounding ending is not found in Mandarin.
5. The collection of the famous "Three Hundred Tang Dynasty Poems" (唐诗三百首) sound better when recited in Hokkien/Teochew if compared to Mandarin.
6. Consider this for a moment: Today, the Hokkien Nam Yim Ochestral performance still has its roots in ancient Tang dynasty music. Here's the proof: The formation of today Nam Yim ensemble is typically seen in ancient Tang dynasty paintings of musicians.
More Astonishingly:
Although not genetically-related, Hokkiens, Koreans and Japanese share many similar words (which are different from Mandarin). Example: News - 新闻 Shim Bun, World - 世界 Se Kai in Japanese)
That's because Hokkien was the official language of the powerful Tang Dynasty whose influence and language spread to Japan and Korea (just like Latin – where many words were borrowed by the English, French, Italian, etc).
To all 49 Million Hokkien Speakers:
Be Proud of Your Ancient Hokkien Heritage & Language! Speak it Loud and Clear. Teach Your Future Generation this Imperial Language, Less it Fades Away. Be Proud Children of the Tang Emperors.
To all Mandarin-speaking friends out there -- do not look down on your other Chinese friends who do not speak Mandarin – whom you guys fondly refer to as "Bananas". In fact, they are speaking a language which is much more ancient & linguistically complicated than Mandarin.
Keep in mind that Mandarin is just:
1. A Northern Chinese dialect 北方话 (heavily influenced by non-Han Chinese) that was elevated to the status of National Language by Sun Yat Sen (孙中山，原名孙逸仙) for the sake of China’s national unity.
2. Mandarin was never spoken by your proud, imperial Tang Dynasty ancestors. It was probably spoken by the Northern (Non-Han 北方民族) Jurchen (女真族), Mongols (蒙古族) and Manchu (满族(女真族的后代)) minority. Start speaking the language of your ancestors today.
[Credits to Leonard Luar for providing this useful historical information. ]
Links to other resources on Hokkien:
Hokkien - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Han Chinese, Hokkien in Malaysia :: Joshua Project
Singaporean Hokkien - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Philippine Hokkien - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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WHY HOKKIEN ISN’T “TANG DYNASTY LANGUAGE” (1)
Ah! My first post in this blog. I have been posting a lot on Facebook prior to the creation of this blog, and since I
am too lazy to think of new content don’t really know where to begin, here’s a post that I have written last year. It refutes the exaggerated and erroneous claims of a particular text about the “antiquity of Hokkien” which has been spreading somewhat like wildfire on the Internet.
I have broken it down, section by section, and debunking some serious mistakes that the text has made. Don’t misunderstand me, I think it’s really heartwarming that so many fellow Hokkiens are so passionate and proud of their own culture and language as well. However, this is no excuse to blatantly misattribute facts in order to raise the awareness of Hokkien.
(By the way, the text can be found here in full, but the chunks I quote below can pretty much be pieced up to form the entire text as well. :p)
Let the fun begin!
“HOKKIEN IS THE SOLE SURVIVING CHINESE LANGUAGE FROM THE TANG DYNASTY 2,000 YEARS AGO.If you’re a Hokkien, did you know that Hokkien is the Ancient Imperial Language of China – 2,000 years ago? If you’re a Hokkien: take note! You’ll be surprised. You have heard it. You, your parents, or grandparents may still be speaking this ancient, archaic language! Yes, it’s Hokkien (Fujian/Minnan Hua 福建话/闽南话)!”
Dang! We’re only at the title and there’s already a serious mathematical error: Tang Dynasty, two thousand years ago!? A simple search on Google will tell us that the Tang Dynasty lasted from 618CE to 907CE, which, even if you count from the first year, is just 1397 years ago (as of 2015). Even if one were to round the number off to one significant digit, it would still yield 1000 years, not 2000. Someone hasn’t been listening in Mathematics class, eh?
Secondly, languages evolve; to claim that Hokkien is the “sole surviving Chinese language from the Tang Dynasty” is about as inaccurate as it probably can. Historically,Middle Chinese would have been spoken during the Tang Dynasty, and many Chinese topolects today descends from Middle Chinese, like Cantonese or Hakka. But neither of the two can claim to be the exact language spoken in the Tang or Song Dynasties.
Yes, they might have retained some characteristics from Middle Chinese, vocabulary-wise and pronunciation-wise, but fundamentally Cantonese and Hakka have already evolved in the past centuries to become different languages. Similarly, languages like Italian and French cannot claim to be the sole surviving “language” from the Roman times – both are simply descendants of the Romans’ language, Latin.
Just to clarify beforehand, whenever I refer to the “Chinese language”, I am referring to the Han language (漢語) – that is, inclusive of various topolects like Mandarin or Hokkien. Some argue that the Chinese language is more of a language family really, and that the ‘topolects’ are by right individual languages, but that’s a story for another day.
Note: “topolect”, from the Greek words topo (land) and lect (language), is a more accurate translation of the Chinese term “方言”. “方言” is commonly translated as “dialect”, which is strange because Cantonese and Mandarin, for example, would considered “dialects” of the same language, and yet are hardly mutually intelligible at all.
“Hokkien is:1) The surviving language of the Tang Dynasty (唐朝, 618 – 907AD), China’s Golden Age of Culture. Note: The Hokkien we hear today may have “evolved” from its original form 2,000 years ago, but it still retains the main elements of the Tang Dynasty Language.”
Wait what? The author actually gave the years for the Tang Dynasty, and yet proceeds to claim again that it is already “two thousand years ago”. Seriously, does nobody notice this?
To clarify, we must first understand that Hokkien has two sets of pronunciations – the vernacular (白讀) and the literary (文讀) pronunciations. For instance, for the word “學” (to learn), the vernacular reading “o̍h” is used, but in certain compound words, like “学生” (student), the literary reading “hak” is used, as in “ha̍k-seng” in the example.
The literary pronunciations did, indeed, have it roots from Middle Chinese. During the Tang, Song, and Yuan Dynasties, the port of Quanzhou (泉州; Tsuân-tsiu) was a prosperous port, and the arts flourished in this cultural melting pot. Thus, the “court language”, or Middle Chinese as spoken in the capital, was adapted into Hokkien and used to read classical texts – thus “literary” – and is still used daily in some compound words or occasionally on their own.
The vernacular pronunciations, however, originated much earlier, in the Jin Dynasty (晉朝). Around 310CE, years of political unrest led to the nomadic tribes of the North seizing the chance and attacking China (五胡亂華). Some of the Han people fled south, and a few batches settled in what is now southern Fujian, in Quanzhou. With them, they brought along their language, which now form the base of Hokkien, the vernacular pronunciations, used in everyday language.
Most modern Chinese topolects have labiodental fricatives, like /f/ (as in “fish”). This is a change that had occurred only around 600CE (Early Middle Chinese). Therefore, Hokkien, having branched off earlier, doesn’t have /f/ in its phonology: in Mandarin, “芳” is pronounced “fāng”; in Hokkien, “phang”.
“2) Hokkiens are the surviving descendants of the Tang Dynasty — When the Tang Dynasty collapsed, the people of the Tang Dynasty fled South and sought refuge in the Hokkien (Fujian 福建省) province. Hence, Hokkien called themselves Tng-lang (唐人比喻为唐朝子孙) Tang Ren or People of the Tang Dynasty) instead of Hua Lang (华人 Hua Ren).”
It is true that the Hokkiens refer to the Han people as “唐儂” (Tn̂g-lâng). However, there were two major waves of migration from the North, first during the Jin Dynasty (晉朝), and second during the Tang Dynasty (唐朝). At the same time, Hokkiens also have Baiyueblood, the Baiyue being the original inhabitants of the southern part of China before the Han people came.
“3) Hokkien has 8 tones instead of Mandarin’s 4. Linguists claim that ancient languages tend to have more complex tones.”
Please name me one linguist who has ever claimed that “ancient languages tend to have more complex tones”.
The truth is quite the opposite, in fact: it has been hypothesised that the Chinese language did not have tones until around the Jin Dynasty (晉朝) – this can be seen in other Sino-Tibetan languages related to the Chinese language, such as Classical Tibetan, which has no tones. Besides, many languages which we deem “ancient” do not even have complex tone systems – or any tones at all, for that matter. The Egyptian language, for instance, did not have tones, and neither did Sanskrit.
Also, Hokkien did have all eight tones originally, but today only seven distinguishable tones remain, with the seventh tone either merging with the sixth (southern) or the third (northern).
“4) Hokkien retains the ancient Chinese pronunciation of “k-sounding” endings (for instance, 学生 hak seng (student), 大学 tua ok (university), 读册 thak chek (read a book/study) — the “k” sounding ending is not found in Mandarin.”
This claim is not completely false, albeit misleadingly phrased and contains a few mistakes. The “k-ending” is written as /k̚/ in IPA. In Hokkien, there are four such endings: “-k” (/k̚/), “-p” (p̚), “-t” (k̚), and “-h” (a glottal stop; ie /ʔ/). These are what we call “checked tones”, or “入聲” in Chinese, referring to “a voiceless stop that has no audible release”. In other words, “-p” would be something like how Singaporeans would pronounce the “p” in “tap” or “stop” – the “p” is not pronounced, but the lips are shaped in the position.
The three examples used are “學生”, “大學”, and “讀冊”; in Tai-lo: “ha̍k-sing”, “tuā-o̍h”, and “tha̍k-tsheh”. As you can see, the words “學” (the vernacular reading, as in the second example) and “册” are not “-k” ending words, but “-h” ending words. The author has, unfortunately, confused the “-k” and “-h” endings, similar to how some young speakers of Hokkien might mispronounce “食” (to eat) as “tsia̍k” instead of “tsia̍h”.
At the same time, it is true that Mandarin no longer has “checked tones” (入聲) – views vary, but it is generally believed that they disappeared completely by the time the Qing Dynasty (清朝) was established (ie stop blaming the Manchus for everything!). If you are interested, do Google for “入聲脫落” (the disappearance of checked tones).
This is only half of the original essay; it’s quite long, so I have broken it into two parts. I will post the second half in the future, and if you liked or did not like this post, please do leave your replies. ^_^
WHY HOKKIEN ISN’T “TANG DYNASTY LANGUAGE” (2)
Continuing from my previous post, here’s the second half of the essay.
“5) The collection of the famous “Three Hundred Tang Dynasty Poems” (唐诗三百首) sound better when recited in Hokkien/Teochew if compared to Mandarin.”
As mentioned previously, the literary pronunciations are used to read classical texts, and this set of readings mostly entered Hokkien the Tang and Song dynasties. Therefore, it is no wonder that poems written in that era would rhyme better in Hokkien, as well as other topolects like Cantonese and Hakka. Also, a higher number of tones (6 in Hakka, 7 in Hokkien, 9 in Cantonese) mean that a richer variety of dynamics is present when using these topolects to recite poems than, say, using Mandarin.
Since the checked tones (入聲) are largely intact in southern topolects like Hokkien, poems written to rhyme in the stop endings, like “滿江紅”, would generate a much more majestic effect when read in Hokkien, with the abrupt stops of the rhyming syllables creating a sense of anger and agitation.
“6) Consider this for a moment: Today, the Hokkien Nam Yim Ochestral performance still has its roots in ancient Tang dynasty music. Here’s the proof: The formation of today Nam Yim ensemble is typically seen in ancient Tang dynasty paintings of musicians.”
To be more exact, “Nam Yim”, or Lâm-im (“南音”; literally “southern sounds”) here refers to a form of Chinese classical music from Quanzhou (泉州), not the different art of the same name from the Guangdong province (廣東省). It is generally believed that Lâm-im was brought to Fujian (福建) towards the end of the Tang Dynasty when there was political unrest and refugees fled south, along with their arts. Many modern Lâm-im pieces are based on orchestral pieces in the Tang and Song Dynasties with verifiable origins.
“More astonishingly: Although not genetically-related, Hokkiens, Koreans and Japanese share many similar words (which are different from Mandarin). Example: news – 新闻 shimbun, world – 世界 sekai in Japanese). That’s because Hokkien was the official language of the powerful Tang Dynasty whose influence and language spread to Japan and Korea (just like Latin – [from] where many words were borrowed by the English, French, Italian, etc).”
“新聞” and “世界” are examples of what we call “wasei-kango” (和製漢語), or Chinese terms coined by the Japanese. When Japan first opened its doors to the Western world, it was introduced to whole new concepts, which Japanese scholars translated by recycling and inventing new terms using Chinese characters. These terms were, in turn, brought back and spread widely by Chinese students who studied in Japanese universities.
The Japanese can pronounce Chinese characters, or kanji, in either the native Japanese pronunciations (kun’yomi) or their original Chinese pronunciations (on’yomi). The most common set of Chinese pronunciations used is known as the “Kan’on” (漢音), which was adapted from the form of Middle Chinese spoken in Chang’an (長安; today’s 西安), Tang Dynasty’s capital. This was about the same time the literary pronunciations came into Hokkien, which explains why “新聞” and “世界” sound similar when pronounced in Hokkien and Japanese.
Korean, on the other hand, had extensive ties with the Tang Dynasty as well, so Korean pronunciations of Chinese words may sound similar to Hokkien due to the same reasons.
Simply because “新聞” and “世界” are not pronounced the same way in Mandarin does not mean that Mandarin “does not use them”, as the author suggests by the sentence “Hokkiens, Koreans and Japanese share many similar words (which are different from Mandarin)”. This two terms are shared amongst the different Chinese topolects, and simply because they are pronounced differently does NOT mean that they are not derived from the same origin.
Like how Hokkien is a Chinese language while Japanese and Korean borrowed words from the Chinese language, French and Italian are Romance languages (descendants of Latin) while English simply borrowed words from the Romance languages. Thus, it is incorrect to claim that French and Italian “borrowed” words from Latin – they descended from it.
To give an example, take the Latin word “monēta”.
The French word “monnaie” is DESCENDED from Latin.
The English word “money” is BORROWED from French (and indirectly Latin).
The English word “money” is BORROWED from French (and indirectly Latin).
Trivia: The original English term representing this concept would be “schat” which is no longer used.
“To all 49 Million Hokkien Speakers: Be proud of your ancient Hokkien heritage & language! Speak it loud and clear. Teach your future generation this Imperial Language, lest it fades away. Be proud, Children of the Tang Emperors.To all Mandarin-speaking friends out there — do not look down on your other Chinese friends who do not speak Mandarin – whom you guys fondly refer to as “Bananas”. In fact, they are speaking a language which is much more ancient & linguistically complicated than Mandarin.Keep in mind that Mandarin is just: 1) A Northern Chinese dialect 北方话 (heavily influenced by non-Han Chinese) that was elevated to the status of National Language by Sun Yat Sen (孙中山，原名孙逸仙) for the sake of China’s national unity. Mandarin was never spoken by your proud, imperial Tang Dynasty ancestors. It was probably spoken by the Northern (Non-Han) Jurchen, Mongols and Manchu minority. Start speaking the language of your ancestors today.”[Credits to Leonard Luar for providing this useful historical information. ]
When the Qing Dynasty was established, Manchu became the national language, being after all the language of the Manchu rulers. However, the de facto language used in court was a predecessor of Mandarin, a Northern Chinese topolect spoken in the capital and surrounding areas spoken since the Ming Dynasty. In fact, in 1728, under Yongzheng Emperor (雍正皇帝), schools were built in the Fujian and Guangdong provinces to teach the officials and scholars Mandarin, showing that it was already of an unofficial national status.
In 1913, after the Qing Dynasty was abolished and the KMT came to power, it was decided that in order to unify the country, a “national language” (國語) should be set. To tackle this problem, scholars incorporated elements from both Northern and Southern Chinese topolects to form what is now known as the “老國音”. Both the retroflex consonants (捲舌音) and checked tones (入聲) coexisted in this new national language.
However, many scholars objected; instead they were in favour of directly adopting the Peking (Beijing; 北京) dialect of Mandarin as the national language. One of them argued that the 老國音 had such complicated phonology that only Chao Yuen-jen (趙元任, a Chinese polyglot/linguist who supported the 老國音) could speak it. To give you an idea of how the 老國音 would have sounded like, listen to how the elderly people around you speak Mandarin, with varying degrees of southern accents, like pronouncing “八” into something like “霸”(again, due to the checked tones, or 入聲).
After years of debate, in 1920, the 新國音 replaced the 老國音, its pronunciations based solely on Mandarin, to the strong objection of scholars like Chang T’ai-yen (章太炎) who called Mandarin “金元虜語” (the language of the Northern barbarians) – not that different as the author’s attitude towards Mandarin, I guess?
Standard Mandarin in Taiwan largely follows the 新國音 when the KMT fled to Taiwan in 1949, bringing along their languages. When the Communists took over Mainland China, they made modifications to Mandarin and in 1956, made it the official language of the country.
And the Sun Yat-sen story? Well, it was simply fabricated by Cantonese enthusiasts and spread by unknowing Cantonese web-users who wanted to emphasise how Cantonese was no less impressive than Mandarin. To set the record staright as well, Sun Yat-sen’s original name was “孫文”, not “孫逸仙”.
Finally, the passage phrases itself in a way which suggests that Jurchens, Mongols, and Manchus co-existed with the Tang Dynasty and had already begun to speak Mandarin. This is absolute nonsense. The Mongols and Jurchens (who were ancestors of the Manchus – the Jurchens only, I meant) only rose to power during the Song Dynasty, which was a few centuries AFTER the Tang Dynasty. The Manchus only came about and defeated the Ming Dynasty, two whole dynasties (and about another 400 years) after the Song Dynasty. There is still debate over whether the Manchu language shaped modern Mandarin or that Mandarin’s distinctive features (like the loss of checked stops) was already present when the Manchus came.
However, one thing is for sure:
The Manchus did NOT exist in the Tang Dynasty, and neither did the Mongols and Jurchens speak Mandarin in the Tang dynasty.
PS: WHO IS LEONARD LUAR?! o.O
Some points that the original text made were quite valid, but overall I found it to be a little too biased towards Hokkien to make a good article. Besides, the way that the author phrases himself, his wording, makes the whole article seem like an advertisement for Hokkien or something. And the sheer number of factual inaccuracies is worrying.
While I am glad that in the age of the Internet, people are expressing the pride they have in their own cultures (judging from how many people shared the text), it is a bit worrying to see that they are misled by false statements and exaggerated claims, some even becoming Hokkien chauvinists (story for another time) after being spurred by such texts.
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Another article on Hokkien:
History Of The Hokkien Language
Hokkien originated in the Southern region of Fujian province, an important centre for trade and migration, and has since spread beyond China, being one of the most common Chinese languages overseas.
A form of Hokkien akin to that spoken in southern Fujian is also spoken in Republic of China (Taiwan) , where it goes by the name Tâi-oân-oē or Hō-ló-oē. The ethnic group for which Hokkien is considered the native language is the Holo or Hoklo, the main ethnicity of Taiwan. The correspondence between language and ethnicity is not absolute, as some Hoklo people have limited proficiency in Hokkien while some non-Hoklos are fluent in the dialect.
There are many Hokkien speakers among overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia as well as in the United States. Many ethnic Chinese emigrants to the region were Hoklo from southern Fujian, and brought the language to what is now Burma (Myanmar), Indonesia (the former Dutch East Indies) and present day Malaysia and Singapore (formerly Malaya and the British Straits Settlements). Many of the Hokkien dialects of this region are highly similar to Taiwanese and Amoy. Hokkien is reportedly the native language of up to 98.5% of the Chinese Filipino in the Philippines, among which is known locally as Lan-nang or Lán-lâng-oē ("Our people’s language"). Hokkien speakers form the largest group of Chinese in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia.[citation needed]
Classification
Southern Fujian is home to three principal Hokkien dialects. They are known by the geographic locations to which they correspond (listed north to south):
Quanzhou (Chinchew, 泉州 Zuánziū)
Xiamen (Amoy, 廈門 Êbbńg)
Zhangzhou (Changchew, 漳州 Ziāngziū)
Xiamen (Amoy, 廈門 Êbbńg)
Zhangzhou (Changchew, 漳州 Ziāngziū)
As Amoy/Xiamen is the principal city of southern Fujian, the Amoy dialect is considered the most important, or even the prestige dialect, of Hokkien. It's a hybrid of the Quanzhou and Zhangzhou dialects. It has played an influential role in history, especially in the relations of Western nations with China, and was one of the most frequently learned of all Chinese languages/dialects by Westerners during the second half of the 19th century and the early 20th century.
The varieties of Hokkien spoken in Taiwan are similar to the three varieties of Fujian, and are collectively known as Taiwanese. Taiwanese is used by a majority of the population and bears much importance from a socio-political perspective, forming the second (and perhaps today most significant) major pole of the language. The varieties of Hokkien in Southeast Asia, including Singaporean Hokkien, also originate from these dialects.
History
Variants of Hokkien dialects can be traced to two sources of origin: Quanzhou and Zhangzhou. Both Amoy and Taiwanese are based on a mixture of Quanzhou and Zhangzhou dialects, while the rest of the Hokkien dialects spoken in South East Asia are either derived from Quanzhou and Zhangzhou, or based on a mixture of both dialects.
Quanzhou
During the Three Kingdoms period of ancient China, there was constant warfare occurring in the Central Plain of China. Northerners began to enter into Fujian region, causing the region to incorporate parts of northern Chinese dialects. However, the massive migration of northern Han Chinese into Fujian region mainly occurred after the Disaster of Yongjia. The Jìn court fled from the north to the south, causing large numbers of northern Han Chinese to move into Fujian region. They brought the old Chinese — spoken in Central Plain of China from prehistoric era to 3rd century AD — into Fujian. This then gradually evolved into the Quanzhou dialect.
Zhangzhou
In 677 (during the reign of Emperor Gaozong), Chen Zheng (陳政), together with his son Chen Yuanguang (陳元光), led a military expedition to pacify the rebellion in Fujian. They settled in Zhangzhou and brought the Middle Chinese phonology of northern China during the 7th century into Zhangzhou; In 885 AD (during the reign of Emperor Xizong of Tang), the two brothers Wang Chao (王潮) and Wang Shenzhi (王審知), led a military expedition force to pacify the Huang Chao rebellion. They brought the Middle Chinese phonology commonly spoken in Northern China into Zhangzhou. These two waves of migrations from the north generally brought the northern Middle Chinese languages into Fujian region. This then gradually evolved into the Zhangzhou dialect.
Xiamen
Xiamen dialect, sometimes known as Amoy, is the main dialect spoken in the Chinese city of Xiamen and its surrounding regions of Tong'an and Xiang'an, both of which are now included in the Greater Xiamen area. This dialect developed in the late Ming dynasty when Xiamen was increasingly taking over Quanzhou's position as the main port of trade in southeastern China. Quanzhou traders began travelling southwards to Xiamen to carry on their businesses while Zhangzhou peasants began traveling northwards to Xiamen in search of job opportunities. It is at this time when a need for a common language arose. The Quanzhou and Zhangzhou varieties are similar in many ways (as can be seen from the common place of Henan Luoyang where they originated), but due to differences in accents, communication can be a problem. Quanzhou businessmen considered their speech to be the prestige accent and considered Zhangzhou's to be a village dialect. Over the centuries, dialect leveling occurred and the two speeches mixed to produce the Amoy dialect.
Developments Of Hokkien
Standard Hokkien
Amoy Hokkien and Taiwanese Hokkien
After the Opium War in 1842, Xiamen (Amoy) became one of the major treaty ports to be opened for trade with the outside world. From mid 19th century onwards, Xiamen slowly developed to become the political, economical and cultural center of the Hokkien-speaking region in China. This caused Amoy dialect to gradually become the "Prestige Standard Hokkien", thus replacing the position of dialect variants from Quanzhou and Zhangzhou. Up to today, it is still being regarded as the representative Standard Hokkien dialect. From mid 19th century till the end of World War II, western diplomats usually learned Amoy Hokkien as the preferred dialect if they were to communicate with the Hokkien-speaking populace in China or South-East Asia. In the 1940s and 1950s, Taiwan also held Amoy Hokkien as its standard and tended to incline itself towards Amoy dialect.
However, from 1980s onwards, the development of Hokkien entertainment and media industry in Taiwan caused the Hokkien cultural hub to shift from Xiamen to Taiwan. The flourishing Hokkien entertainment and media industry from Taiwan in the 1990s and early 21st century led Taiwan to emerge as the new significant cultural hub for Hokkien.
In 1990s, marked by the liberalization of language development and mother tongue movement in Taiwan, Taiwanese Hokkien had undergone a fast pace in its development. In 1993, Taiwan became the first region in the world to implement the teaching of Taiwanese Hokkien in Taiwanese schools. In 2001, the local Taiwanese language program was further extended to all schools in Taiwan, and Taiwanese Hokkien became one of the compulsory local Taiwanese languages to be learned in schools.[18] The mother tongue movement in Taiwan even influenced Xiamen (Amoy) to the point that in 2010, Xiamen also began to implement the teaching of Hokkien dialect in its schools.[19] In 2007, the Ministry of Education in Taiwan also completed the standardization of Chinese characters used for writing Hokkien and developed Tai-lo as the standard Hokkien pronunciation and romanization guide. A number of universities in Taiwan also offer Hokkien degree courses for training Hokkien language talents to work for the Hokkien media industry and education. Taiwan also has its own Hokkien literary and cultural circles whereby Hokkien poets and writers compose poetry or literature in Hokkien on a regular basis.
Thus by the 21st century, Taiwan has truly emerged as one of the most significant Hokkien cultural hub of the world. Although Amoy Hokkien continued to be regarded as the historical "Prestige Standard Hokkien", the historical changes and development in Taiwan had led Taiwanese Hokkien to become the more influential pole of the Hokkien dialect after mid 20th century. Today, Taiwanese prestige dialect (Taiyu Youshiqiang/Tongxinqiang 台語優勢腔/通行腔), which is based on Tainan variant and heard on Taiwanese Hokkien media, has also become one of the major "Standard Hokkien" along with Amoy.
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What is Hokkien Dialect?
Here in Indonesia, we often informally use chinese sounding language to describe things that are related to money.
Ce pe means 100
go cheng means 5000
ceng li means natural
kam sya mean thank you
Bak pau means meat bun
bak mi means noodle.
cuan means profit
kang taw means fortune (monetary fortune)
cia means eat
That is. Simple. No tonal
They said it's hokkian language. But hokkian is not even one of the main chinese diallect.
Then there is this new language called mandarin.
In fact, my very own name, Jim Thio, is said to be Hokkian. The mandarin of Thio is Zhang or Chang. It's the same Zhang as in Zhang Fei (one of the general in Sam Kok or San Guo) I don't even know what language hokkian language is?
What language does Sam Kok belongs to? Hokkian? Cantonese? The mandarin is San Guo right?
Ce pe means 100
go cheng means 5000
ceng li means natural
kam sya mean thank you
Bak pau means meat bun
bak mi means noodle.
cuan means profit
kang taw means fortune (monetary fortune)
cia means eat
That is. Simple. No tonal
They said it's hokkian language. But hokkian is not even one of the main chinese diallect.
Then there is this new language called mandarin.
In fact, my very own name, Jim Thio, is said to be Hokkian. The mandarin of Thio is Zhang or Chang. It's the same Zhang as in Zhang Fei (one of the general in Sam Kok or San Guo) I don't even know what language hokkian language is?
What language does Sam Kok belongs to? Hokkian? Cantonese? The mandarin is San Guo right?
4 Answers
The two wikipedia articles linked below are pretty thorough. But it all does seem pretty complicated.
Quotes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
Myself, I'm wondering about the language called Taiwanese
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
..........
Interesting quote (link below):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
.........................
I learned one sentence in "Taiwanese" and may be remembering it wrong.
"Li gong sa. Wa tiabo." Meaning: "What are you saying? I don't understand."
Ok, I found it here: http://wikitravel.org/en/
Pretty close:
Anyway, as I said, it IS all quite confusing : )
Quotes:
The term Hokkien is itself a term not used in Chinese as it would be no different than the name of Fujian province. In Chinese linguistics, these dialects are known by their classification under the Quanzhang Division (Chinese: 泉漳片; pinyin:Quánzhāng piàn) of Min Nan, which comes from the first characters of the two main Hokkien urban centers Quanzhou and Zhangzhou. The language is also known by other terms such as the more general Min Nan (traditional Chinese: 閩南語, 閩南話; simplified Chinese: 闽南语, 闽南话; pinyin: Mǐnnányǔ, Mǐnnánhuà; Pe̍h-ōe-jī: Bân-lâm-gí,Bân-lâm-oē) or Southern Min, and Fulaohua (traditional Chinese: 福佬話; simplified Chinese: 福佬话; pinyin: Fúlǎohuà; Pe̍h-ōe-jī: Hō-ló-oē).
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
The Min Nan (or "Hokkien") language can trace its roots through the Tang Dynasty. Min Nan (Hokkien) people call themselves "Tang people," (唐人, tn̂g lâng) which is synonymous to "Chinese people". Because of the widespread influence of the Tang culture during the great Tang dynasty, we find today still many Min Nan pronunciations of words shared by the Korean and Japanese language. For example, the Hokkien term for bridge (橋) is "kiô" (Korean 교, kyo), book (冊) is "chheh" (Korean 책, chaek), student is "ha̍k-sing" (學生) (Korean 학생,haksaeng), dangerous (危險) is "guî-hiám", "wiheom" (Korean 위험), and insurance (保險) is "pó-hiám" (Korean 보험,boheom).
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
Myself, I'm wondering about the language called Taiwanese
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
- One of the Languages of Taiwan http://en.wikipedia.org/w
iki/Lan... - One of the indigenous Formosan languages spoken in Taiwanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w
iki/For...
..........
Interesting quote (link below):
Hokkien immigrants to Taiwan originated from Quanzhou prefecture (44.8%) and Zhangzhou prefecture (35.2%). The original phonology from these regions was spread around Taiwan during the immigration process. With the advanced development of transportation and greater mobility of the Taiwanese population, Taiwanese Hokkien speech has steered itself towards a mixture of Quanzhou and Zhangzhou speech, known as "Zhang Quan Lan" (漳泉濫).[21] Due to different proportion of mixture, some regions are inclined more towards Quanzhou accent, while others are inclined more towards Zhangzhou accent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w
.........................
I learned one sentence in "Taiwanese" and may be remembering it wrong.
"Li gong sa. Wa tiabo." Meaning: "What are you saying? I don't understand."
Ok, I found it here: http://wikitravel.org/en/
Pretty close:
I don't understand. . (Wah tyah bo)
Anyway, as I said, it IS all quite confusing : )
Hokkien is, strictly speaking, literally the pronunciation of the characters 福建, the name of a province in China. In Mandarin, today's official dialect, this province's name would be pronounced Fujian. In English, the term Hokkien dialect usually refers loosely to a few of several Minnan (閩南, i.e. Southern Min) dialects which originate in Fujian proper and all maintain some degree of mutual intelligibility. Today these particular dialects are not limited to their home lands; not only are Hokkien dialects spoken in Xiamen, Zhangzhou, Quanzhou, but also in large parts of Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines. Each place has its own variations of the dialect; for example Penang Hokkien borrows from Malay language and Taiwanese borrows from Japanese language, but both Penang Hokkien and Taiwenese maintain most of their vocabulary from Zhangzhou/Xiamen dialect.
Your list of words are indeed direct pronunciations of Chinese characters. In their original form, they actually do have tones to them, but they have largely been flattened in transit to southeast Asia :) I illustrate with similarities of your words to other dialects:
- Note that while often implied this way, the terms Hokkien dialect and Minnan dialectare not exactly the same thing; rather Hokkien dialect, as the term is used in English, is a type of Minnan dialect, namely the Minnan dialect from Fujian, i.e. Xiamen/Zhangzhou dialect. There exist other Minnan dialects from outside Fujian, such as Chaoshan (Teochew) dialect and Hainan dialect. These are somewhat similar in phonology to the Hokkien Minnan dialects but are not always easily mutually intelligible.
- Note also that while the terms Hokkien and Fujian are just different pronunciations of the same Chinese characters, it is the English nomenclature that is confusing; what English speakers have agreed on as "Hokkien dialect" is not the only dialect spoken in the province of Fujian; there are many other (non-Minnan) dialects spoken in Fujian as well, including Putian dialect, Fuzhou dialect, Hakka, and various others, all of which are mostly unintelligible with each other, owing to the mountainous terrain which isolated the various communities. Most of these other dialects are also, incidentally, prevalent in southeast Asia's Chinese diaspora.
Your list of words are indeed direct pronunciations of Chinese characters. In their original form, they actually do have tones to them, but they have largely been flattened in transit to southeast Asia :) I illustrate with similarities of your words to other dialects:
(五千) go cheng means 5000 (wu qian(chien) in Mandarin, go sen in Japanese)
(感謝) kam sya mean thank you (gan xie(hsieh) in Mandarin, gam ze in Cantonese)
(肉包) bak pau means meat bun (rou bao in Mandarin)
(肉骨茶) bak kut teh (rou gu cha in Mandarin)
(茶) teh means tea (cha in Mandarin; incidentally the English word tea originates from Hokkien)
(吃) cia means eat (chi(chih) in Mandarin)
